My friend Aaron Kimberly recently started a new podcast called Bearded Lesbians, and I’ve had great fun listening to it so far as I sit trapped most days under a now three-month-old baby. It is available on YouTube, Substack, and all your favorite podcast apps.
The two main goals of the podcast are to investigate why so many lesbians are taking testosterone and to promote a sex realist framing. Aaron, who is also a bearded lesbian, interviews other women who are currently on testosterone or have taken it in the past. As someone who is interested in the ins and outs of lesbian sexual orientation, listening to the episodes available so far has given me a lot to think about.
Something I have really appreciated about this podcast is that while it does take a sex realist framing by presenting lesbians who take testosterone as exactly that—lesbians who take testosterone and not “men,” Aaron does not push guests to use any specific type of language or ideological framing. This was actually a little bit frustrating when I listened to a couple of the younger guests use terms like “gender identity,” “gender expression,” and “cis.” I could see that despite the fact they weren't confused about their sex or sexual orientation, they were so steeped in the language of gender ideology that it was a critical factor in the way they described themselves and their experiences. I do, however, also appreciate this because it offered critical insight into how such young lesbians understand themselves. I might wish they didn't use these terms and embrace these ideas, but the reality is that to an extent they do.
I really found myself lamenting that lesbians younger than me have grown up as steeped in gender ideology as they have. I’ve said before that I have also experienced dysphoria and might have gone down the trans path if exposed to gender ideology when I was young. I know that at the very least it would have made me ruminate a lot more than I did on my discomforts with being female.
But listening to these interviews has also given me pause and forced me to contend with the fact that many lesbians, usually butcher ones, have had to struggle with greater feelings of dysphoria, both physically and socially, than I ever did. I am quite gender non-conforming, but I’m not all that “butch.” I have great sympathy for the ones who truly saw testosterone as a way to live more comfortably in the world.
I also think that I and others often see young women who choose to transition as following a trend, and there is absolutely that element to youth transition as a whole. But we can’t forget that in some girls, their sexual orientation and butch personality truly do lead to great discomfort both with their bodies and how they are perceived by others. After all, butch lesbians have been taking testosterone for decades now for these reasons, as the second interview of the podcast shows.
I’m not saying I think transition is the answer for these women—just that I can understand their motivations and desires. At the end of the day, I don’t seek to control others, but I think there should be strong medical safeguards, accurate information about transition, and a very robust counternarrative that helps women feel comfortable as women no matter their sexual orientation or personality. But that's not the world we live in, and I can see why some choose to go the other way out of discomfort, practicality, or a combination of both.
The podcast has made me think a lot about lesbian sexual orientation as well, particularly its innateness and its connection to gender non-conformity. I often find myself angry at the fact that “trans” has come to dominate the conversation around gender non-conformity when it is often a trait very closely associated with homosexuality. And I think this is important because many people, including Jordan Peterson, doubt that female homosexuality exists at all.
As I have written before, I think it is fair to say that, in general, female sexuality is more fluid. That is my perspective, anyway. But for some of us, it is very fixed. And for some women, their sexuality and gender non-conformity are such brute facts of their existence that they feel it is simpler and easier to take testosterone and pass as men.
Anyway, I’ll stop rambling, but it’s safe to say that the Bearded Lesbians podcast provides a lot of food for thought. I hope you will check it out and enjoy!
Thank you for this post. I usually can't listen to podcasts but want to add that I do not know of any Butches who have taken testosterone to grow beards to pass as male (and I've known many Butches since 1969), but I do know Fems who take testosterone to "transition."
But more importantly, if women are our natural selves and not shaving or having electrolysis, etc. many women would naturally grow beards/ facial fur without ever taking testosterone. In the Seventies, many did, but now very few do because of harassment. I've seen Lesbians from different races, ethnicities, and ages grow facial fur naturally. (Many get start growing it later, but some of us started in our twenties.)
Also, again I think it's crucial to not use "homosexual" for Lesbians for many reasons, including associating us with men and past horrible stories about "homosexuals" that were never about Lesbians (like having the highest STD and AIDS, etc. statistics). It's bad enough that het women don't want to think about us anyway (or they might make different choices), but the association with gay men can have catastrophic results when dealing with the medical system where their hatred of us goes crazy. I will never forget when I had the signs of strep throat, white spots on my throat and rapidly increasing fever. At the emergency appt. I had, the doctor refused to test me or give me antibiotics because she assumed I had AIDS (and asked if I did.) I'm at the lowest risk possible, never having been het or having a blood transfusion, but the Lesbian-hating doctor lumped me in with gay men. If I hadn't been so sick and scared, I would have told her she was much more at risk for AIDS because she had sexual contact with the main carriers, men.
Agreed! Aaron’s new podcast is excellent and always gives me something new to think about.